You Only Know What You Know | Screens, Scrolls, and Stress: Finding Digital Balance featuring Dr. Rachael Levine, Ph.D., LCP
Screens are everywhere — in our homes, our schools, and our children’s social lives. For many parents and caregivers, the challenge isn’t whether screens should be part of daily life, but how to help kids build a healthy relationship with technology. In this conversation, Beth Hope and Britt Teasdale sit down with Dr. Rachael Levine, Ph.D., LCP, the Director of Young Child Programs & Center of Excellence at Compass Health Center, to move the conversation away from fear and toward clarity. Together, they explore what we know about screen use, why it’s so hard for kids (and adults) to unplug, and how families can focus less on perfect limits and more on balance, awareness, and connection.
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Full Transcript
Britt Teasdale (00:05)
Screens have become the backdrop of childhood and adolescence. A 2025 survey from Lurie Children’s Hospital of Chicago found that kids 13 and under average about three hours a day on screens. That’s roughly 21 hours a week. And 62% of parents report feeling guilty about their child’s screen use. For teens, some reports say that screen use is closer to eight hours a day.
Screens are where kids do homework, text friends, watch something funny after a long day—and it’s where tension now runs through family life. For many families, it’s not just about screen time. It’s about attention, sleep, mood, boundaries, and the sense that something has shifted, even if you can’t quite name how concerned you should be.
Beth Hope (00:48)
And that’s where so many parents feel stuck—wondering how much is too much, what’s typical, and when should I be concerned? Today’s conversation is about moving away from fear and toward answers, because screens aren’t just a technology issue. They’re an inevitable part of our day-to-day life.
Britt Teasdale (01:05)
We’re joined by Dr. Rachael Levine, a licensed clinical psychologist and the Director of Young Child Programs at Compass Health Center in Chicago.
Beth Hope (01:13)
Dr. Levine earned her PhD in school psychology from Illinois State University and began her career working as a school psychologist in a therapeutic day school before moving into clinical care at Compass in 2017. Her work focuses on helping children, teens, and families navigate emotional and behavioral challenges, and she brings a thoughtful balance of research-driven insight and a calm, practical approach that really helps families make sense of what they’re seeing at home. Rachael, we are so glad you’re here to talk with us.
Rachael Levine (01:42)
Thank you both. I’m excited to be here, too, and talk about screens. It comes up in almost every conversation I have.
Beth Hope (01:53)
Tell us a little bit more, just to kick us off, about your background and the work that you’ve been doing with kids and families.
Rachael Levine (02:00)
I started off in school psychology and really got into the field thinking about how to best support kids who don’t always have access to the things that they need during the day. So I went into schools pretty naturally first, and then from there into the world of clinical care—and I really enjoy it a lot.
I would say that my work over the years has morphed a little bit. Theoretically, my background can be fairly behavioral, and over time I’ve pulled in lots of different approaches to figure out what’s going to work best for kids and families. At the end of the day, life is really messy, and there isn’t one right way to do everything. There are so many different ways to support each other. And so I think the more we can pull in lots of different approaches—assuming they’re evidence-based, you mentioned the research-driven piece too—then I think we’re just getting stronger and stronger.
Britt Teasdale (02:50)
What drew you to working with young children?
Rachael Levine (02:51)
That’s a great question. I always worked with kids. I never had any job outside of childcare, which maybe says something about me, but I started babysitting when I was like 11 and kept working with kids all the way from there on up.
And I’ve always enjoyed seeing them learn and grow and develop. I think watching kids develop, and seeing where schools maybe have this normative developmental approach—or they’re kind of built for the group norm—there are a lot of kids who can’t access that in the same way. And that’s what drew me into school psychology: how do we build these spaces to be a space for everybody, and how do we make sure everybody gets what they need? From that, I kind of fell into this niche of acute mental health crises that led me to Compass.
Beth Hope (03:37)
You mentioned school psychology, and it made me think about how when I was in school—I’m gonna sound like such a boomer right now—screens at school meant a substitute teacher pushing in a small TV on a cart so that we could watch something, or those film projector things.
Now screens are an important tool and just woven naturally into the learning process for kids. I’m sure it looks different for kids and teens, but tell us a little bit about what screen use looks like realistically for kids and teens right now—in terms of the ways they’re using them at home, at school, socially. I know that’s a broad question.
Rachael Levine (04:16)
Yeah, those were the best days, by the way, when those big TVs got rolled into the classroom. That didn’t happen very often—they were fun.
Now screens for kids are so embedded into everything that they do. Over the course of my career—and I know other people have experienced this very readily too—there were really cool advances when technology was new: when iPads were new, or iPhones were new, or you had AirPods. It was huge for certain communities using assistive tech, and they could now fit into these spaces and have access to devices that gave them a little bit of social collateral. Maybe they were some of the first people in their friend group that had access to these devices, and that was really cool.
And now it’s everywhere, right? In a lot of schools, every student is issued a device. They use it. It’s the way they access their schoolwork. It’s the way they turn in their schoolwork. It’s the way they communicate. It’s just standard.
Britt Teasdale (05:11)
What worries parents most about screen time when it comes to how much they’re using screens—not only at school, but how that ripples into their home life as well? Is it hard for them not to bring it home? Like we bring our work home—kids are bringing their homework home, they’re bringing schoolwork home. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what you’re hearing from parents?
Rachael Levine (05:30)
I think one of the things that is most concerning for parents is just the uncertainty of it. We still don’t totally know why screens are “bad,” in air quotes, and we don’t totally know all the ways that they impact kids and their development. But we know there are some things that are unhealthy about it, and we know it’s tricky.
And sometimes parents see very actively big meltdowns, or difficulties getting off of screens, or kids asking for screens incessantly. I think a lot of the concerns come from that uncertainty: What is this doing to my child? What is going to be the long-term impact of screen use?
Sometimes there’s the more immediate concern of: this is really hard. I’m either being asked every hour to get onto a screen, or I’m being asked every hour to buy something new on a screen, or when it’s time to get off a screen, we can’t without a major meltdown or aggressive outburst.
Britt Teasdale (06:19)
In school settings as well—kids are using screens at school—are they also showing those behaviors using tech in the classroom?
Rachael Levine (06:27)
Sometimes. It varies. There’s some benefit in the classroom: this is just what we do. Everybody in the classroom is getting off of it, everybody in the classroom is doing the same thing, and so it can be a little bit easier than when you’re at home, kind of isolated in your own environment, and you don’t have that social comparison.
But there are certainly kids and teens who have a hard time shifting off of it or turning it in at school too.
Beth Hope (06:49)
Just to kind of level set—and I don’t know if we can even answer this question—but what is screen time, and what is “bad” about screen time? It used to be, before everyone had a smartphone, screen time meant TV and parents would limit time watching television. And now it feels like TV time doesn’t even count as screen time. Like, “let’s get off our personal screens.”
Is the concern around isolation versus if we’re all engaging in screen time together that’s okay? Is it screens and their impact on our eyes and our brains? What are we calling screen time, and what are some of the main concerns that make us feel like we should limit it?
Rachael Levine (07:32)
Screen time has definitely morphed from including TV to not including TV. That’s an explicit conversation we have a lot of the time where we’ll say, “Okay, let’s talk about boundaries around screen time,” and more often than not responses come in as, “Here’s what we do”—not including TV, which is on in the background. Or even if they’re not able to access their personal devices, like a tablet or a phone or a laptop, they still have TV time.
So it is separated out in an interesting way.
It’s a good question of what’s “bad” about it. We don’t totally know. The research is just coming out in the last couple of years to see how we can get at some causal relationships between screen use and mental health or development. We have a little bit of information, but a lot of what has come in the last decade or so has just been correlational data.
So part of what we’ve kind of come to look at is that it’s not necessarily what you’re doing on a screen—it’s what that is taking the place of in your life. If you’re on screens for X amount of hours a day, it means you’re not doing other things. That means you’re not connecting with other people. You’re not forming those social connections. You’re not getting up and exercising.
You mentioned eyes and brains. Certainly, there’s more research looking at what it does to your eye development if you’re on screens all the time. That’s outside of my wheelhouse, but something to think about. I do think it seems to be more about the absence of what you’re doing instead.
Beth Hope (08:51)
What is it about screens that is so addicting—so challenging for not just kids, but adults too—to put them down when we know there are other things to which it would be more healthy, pro-social, productive to be devoting our time? Like, why is it so hard?
Rachael Levine (09:14)
Tech developers are really smart and know how brains work. I don’t know how many of you have found yourself sitting down, opening something, and you end up scrolling for what you think will be 10 minutes—but it ends up being 30 minutes, or longer. You just get sucked into these rabbit holes.
What happens is that short videos, or other things we see online, or the games that are designed—they’re designed to hit these instant gratification loops for us. And so we get this dopamine hit, and we just keep going.
What we know about teens and kids is that their ability to delay gratification isn’t quite developed yet, right? That’s an executive functioning skill. It comes with ongoing development of your prefrontal cortex—and it’s not there yet. So they’re already prone to seek out instant gratification. It’s much harder for them to delay any kind of immediate reward in exchange for something that might be bigger and better later on, if they just delay it a little bit. It’s hard for teens to do that. And so we put things in front of them that really speak to that instant gratification—and it’s hard to walk away.
Britt Teasdale (10:16)
And they’re also probably seeing the adults in their lives on them as well, right? So it’s like, “Ooh, that looks special,” and the adult that I know is on this all the time.
I’m curious—you mentioned that oftentimes people aren’t including television or movies or that type of screen time when they’re talking about screen time. In these studies that are coming out, are they including television and movies in those? Or are we strictly talking about phones and tablets in terms of the research that has been done?
Rachael Levine (10:46)
It varies, and that’s one of the critiques of the research that’s been done so far. There are some that are aligned and there are some that are different. There have been a few meta-analyses in the last couple of years that look at all of the studies that have been done and try to make sure they have the same criteria.
Some look at—and include—TV, phone use, video games, computers, and what you’re doing on those: educational content, talking with friends and family, playing a game by yourself, looking at social media, whatever it might be. Others might look at just one component. So it varies.
Britt Teasdale (11:18)
Interesting. When you talk about screen time with families, how do you define it?
Rachael Levine (11:23)
I include TV, ideally. Some aren’t ready to do it all in one chunk, which is totally fine, but I think it should be included.
Beth Hope (11:31)
You mentioned dopamine hit earlier, and that’s something we hear about a lot. For those who maybe aren’t so familiar with prefrontal cortex, dopamine hit—tell us a little bit about what that is. And then I’d also be curious to hear about ways that we can achieve that same reward that are healthier.
Rachael Levine (11:52)
Dopamine is something that gets released and makes us feel good. When we end up in spots where we’re getting instant gratification in some ways—and it happens with lots of different things, right? It can happen when we’re gambling. It can happen when we’re interacting with people. It can happen around food sometimes.
Lots of different things can set this off. It sets us into a dopamine hit—or a dopamine loop—where you get these releases of dopamine that feel really good, and they make you want to do it more. That is, in a nutshell, what it is.
Beth Hope (12:24)
So basically, does it then become an addiction? Like you hear people say all the time, “My kid’s addicted to screens.”
Rachael Levine (12:29)
Yeah—so as we talk about screen use and screen dependency, and some people will talk about screen addiction, there’s a lot of back-and-forth on the use of the word addiction. It has certain implications, and in some ways it can minimize what a true addiction is.
When we think about that word, we’re really thinking about some sort of abuse of something in a way that is really detrimental, as opposed to simply overuse of something.
At Compass, we use screen dependency as opposed to screen addiction when we talk about people who are using screens too much. I would argue that that’s pretty appropriate. I don’t know that the amount that we’re getting into these dopamine loops really gets us to a level of addiction most of the time.
The majority of the time, we’re seeking it and it feels good and it’s a nice escape. Usually we’re over-relying on screens as an escape or avoidance of other stuff that’s happening in our life, not necessarily going to it in and of itself.
Beth Hope (13:27)
Are there general recommendations by age group or developmental stage that are out there in terms of what is a quote-unquote appropriate amount of screen time? And I assume that includes at home and at school for different ages.
Rachael Levine (13:47)
Yeah, there are a bunch, actually. There are a few places you can look. There are some things listed on the CDC. There’s a website called Common Sense Media, which is a great resource as well. But there are certainly recommendations out there through the American Academy of Pediatrics, and most pediatric agencies have some sort of guideline and statement around screen use and what’s recommended.
Britt Teasdale (14:11)
Would you be able to tell us a little bit more about those specific ages?
Rachael Levine (14:14)
I can, yeah. So up to 18 months, really limiting use of video to conversation with family and friends—like if a parent is out of town, or you’re talking to a grandparent who lives elsewhere. We’re really building connection and having communication in that way. From there to two years—24 months—looking at educational programming with a caregiver and really limiting that, too.
In that next age group, three to five: up to one hour per weekday of educational content, still supervised by an adult—somebody who can help clarify and make sense of what a child is seeing and how they’re interacting with it. So pretty heavily supervised.
And then six and up is when you can start to have a little bit more of a realistic conversation with kids around what screens are, how they use them, what’s okay, what’s not okay—establishing individualized family plans. A lot of that has to do with how much everybody in the family interacts with screens. There’s a decent amount of wiggle room, but we still don’t want it to be a ton, and we want to help them develop healthy habits.
After that, there aren’t as clear guidelines in the same way. Generally speaking, it’s going to depend on the family and the way you can use it. I do think we know less is better. And there’s a point of diminishing returns where if we cut too much off for too long, that can also have a negative impact on mental health and well-being. So we have to find that balance.
Britt Teasdale (15:40)
I’m curious—you said like 18 months and under, a video call with family is okay. What about siblings in the house, movies on in the background, or something like that? How does that factor in?
Rachael Levine (15:51)
Right. There’s interesting stuff on that, actually. Some studies have looked at language development and things like that. There were also a couple of studies that looked at a video learning deficit, to some degree—where when kids watched adults do something on the screen, there was a longer delay in them being able to learn or mimic that behavior.
In households where there are TVs on in the background a lot of the time, or there are a lot of other screens happening, language development was a little bit slower. It took longer to pick up words. The thoughts behind all of that were similar: it’s not necessarily that these things aren’t happening, but there are higher levels of distraction in the household. If there’s a TV on in the background, adults might be engaged in that TV instead of interacting with that child. So there’s an increased level of distraction across the board.
Now, is all of that going to permanently impact your development over time? I don’t know that anybody’s saying that. They’re just things that we’re looking at that may or may not be more likely to be true.
Britt Teasdale (16:51)
It’s almost less about, in that scenario, the screen itself and more so that it’s taking the adult—or the parent or the individual that could be interacting with the child—away from that interaction.
Rachael Levine (17:03)
Yeah, yeah. And that’s kind of where this research gets tricky, because we can’t always speak to exactly what the relationship is. We can see the correlation, and then we can posit that it might be X, Y, and Z. There’s still a ton of work to be done in terms of establishing causation.
Beth Hope (17:23)
This is making me think about how kids get iPads at school in elementary school now, and it’s limited, but by the time you’re in sixth grade—at least where we live—your textbooks are on your iPad or Chromebook. That’s where you’re taking all of your notes, and that’s when you go home, where you’re doing your homework. And certainly in high school, which is a seven-hour day, really between school time and homework is already above what those recommended limits are. And that doesn’t include things like connecting with family that lives elsewhere.
Rachael Levine (18:00)
I think it’s helpful to get a sense from your child’s classroom teacher—or maybe even leadership at your child’s school, around a curriculum night or something like that—to ask, “What does interaction with screens look like during the day? When they’re using it, how are they using it? How do they put it away? Is it truly all of that time? Are there times they might be accessing something on a screen but still working together as a group?”
That would make a pretty big difference. And obviously, as kids get older—teenagers in high school—they’re interacting with their screens in a much different way than a third grader might be. In the same way that many of us have to as adults, where we’re responsible for our email and messaging and reading and accessing everything there too. It’s a good conversation to have so you have a good sense of what that actually looks like.
Britt Teasdale (18:43)
My son is five and he’s in kindergarten, and all the kids have a tablet that they use for, I think, like a science part of the day or math part of the day—something like that. And he’s never had a tablet at home, so he’s so excited about it. But I’ve noticed a real increase in his interest. He’s asking, like, “Can we get one at home? Can I use your phone? Can I get a watch that has a screen?” It’s kind of opened up his world in terms of what’s possible with this. Not entirely sure my thoughts on it yet, but he really has opened up his eyes to what he can do on a tablet.
Rachael Levine (19:23)
You’re not alone in that. I think there are a lot of mixed feelings—and you sound very patient and like you’re approaching that with an open mind. I think there are some families who feel much stronger, like that has disrupted what they would hope to do, or it’s introduced this thing that they didn’t want to be a big thing. And then there are other kids who it’s not new for, and they’re not experiencing that.
But it is true: the more they access it, that is part of what they will continue to access. So you’re starting to see that at age six and up—helping kids develop a healthy relationship with it. Now you’re in a position to address it and say, “Okay, you do have this at school. You use it to learn. And here are the ways we might use screens in our life,” and start to have that conversation.
Britt Teasdale (20:05)
And it really does.
Beth Hope (20:05)
I mean, to your point, once your child is old enough that they’re existing outside of your home—and in some cases that’s really young; my kids went to daycare and preschool—for others that’s maybe kindergarten, you don’t get to control it. And there are benefits, right? I mean, what you just shared, Britt, in terms of your son being able to access really interesting scientific material.
My parents and some of my siblings live in other states, and my kids have a much better relationship with them than they otherwise could have, if they couldn’t see them and FaceTime with them. We’re all on screens right now, and it’s allowing us to have this nice conversation and record this podcast.
I think obviously we’re here to talk about some of the concerns and challenges and how to solve for them. And I don’t think anyone’s talking about eliminating screen use. If that was a recommendation, it wouldn’t prepare anyone for life in the real world. We want to talk about balance and healthy relationships and the intention behind it. Is it learning? Is it connecting? Is it entertainment—which isn’t a bad thing in and of itself?
When does it become a problem? How do we limit various types? How do we teach kids at different ages—or intervene if it’s already kind of gotten quote-unquote too far—so that we can build those skills for our kids and avoid meltdowns?
Rachael Levine (21:31)
You probably have both heard of pacts between parents and different communities of, “Can we wait until eighth grade to buy our kids phones?” And there’s a lot more power in it if everybody’s doing it. You get rid of that social pressure.
Your son at five is not being socially pressured to get a tablet at home, but he’s being exposed to it and he’s asking about it. And that happens more and more. If one child in a friend group gets a phone, there are a lot of questions: “Can I get that phone too?” “I want this phone.” “I want to talk to them on that phone.” So parents and communities coming together to set some group norms can be really powerful.
Britt Teasdale (22:06)
That’s such a great point. Beth, you could probably speak to this more, but it’s such a tricky point in parenthood when friends start getting technology—or something that you don’t want to have in your household, you don’t value that in your home—and now your kid’s asking for it every day. How do you coach families through that? If they’re not able to come together and be on the same page about tech, how do families approach those conversations?
Rachael Levine (22:34)
Sure. And there are lots of reasons why a child might need or want a phone prior to that, too. You might be moving across two households during the week and it’s better to have a phone. You might be taking a bus or a cab in some cases. It’s helpful even in some medication management standpoints—like if you have care for diabetes, it’s very nice to have a phone. A lot of our technology is built into those things.
And sometimes it can be a lot of judgment. Say you do have a community that has that pact to wait until eighth, and you need to get a phone for one of those reasons—there can be a lot of guilt associated with it, too.
So when we talk with parents and caregivers about what’s right for them, it really is that: What’s right for you? What are the pros and cons? Why do you feel like you do or don’t want this thing? How are you going to use it? And if you have it in place, what are some of the family boundaries and rules you can put around it? It’s much more of a planning process conversation than one answer in one direction or another.
Britt Teasdale (23:30)
Mm-hmm. And I feel like the time limits recommended keep getting less and less, right? But technology is changing so quickly. We’re getting more and more and more, but the recommendations are getting less, less, and less. How do you approach that with parents that are kind of terrified? I think some parents are really scared about how tech is affecting their children. The recommendations keep getting less and less—what are we going to know in five years? There’s a lot of anxiety around it. How do you level set?
Rachael Levine (24:00)
When we talk about it, we think about: what are some of the real things we can observe and see, and how are things impacting kids?
When we start to wonder if there’s a problem with screen use or screen overuse or dependency, we’re looking at things like emotional well-being. Are we seeing symptoms of anxiety or depression increase? We’re looking at sleep patterns. Are they getting enough sleep? Is it hard to sleep? Are we seeking out screens instead of sleeping?
We’re looking at other activities. Are kids and teens no longer engaging in the activities that they liked doing before, and replacing those things with screen time? Or are they increasing social isolation? Maybe they’re on social media, but they’re by themselves in their room.
So we’re looking at all of that to see if this is something we need to address. If parents are concerned with screen time, it’s helpful to sit down and really look at what’s happening: What are the current patterns? How is your child interacting with it now? Is the concern grounded in any of those things? Are you starting to see shifts in patterns in your kid’s behavior, or the things they’re saying, or how they’re feeling about things? Do you see their mood change after they get off screens, and they seem pretty down or frustrated?
And sometimes the worry comes from the what-ifs: “I don’t know what this is doing to my kid, but we’re not actually seeing anything negative.” Then maybe it’s okay. But if we’re seeing all of those things, we might want to address it.
Britt Teasdale (25:14)
That’s such an important point. It’s so individualized. What works for one family might not work for yours. What works for one kid might not work for yours. And it really goes back to that conversation. There’s so much information out there, and we’re being inundated with so much—whether it’s about screens or something else related to parenthood—but we need to ground ourselves in: we often know what’s best for our kid, and we know our kid the best. So how do we make decisions from that place, instead of all this extra noise that’s drowning us?
Rachael Levine (25:47)
…that you find on social media just bombarding you.
Britt Teasdale (25:50)
Exactly.
Beth Hope (25:53)
It’s all well and good and important to be proactive in terms of thinking about what rules you want to have in your family and how to have these conversations. But let’s be real: for a lot of us, that ship has sailed. The advances in technology and the amount of time our kids are using technology at school and other things is moving faster—or has already outpaced—our initial decision-making. And it can be really hard, as we know personally and professionally, to try to rein it back in. Especially—this leads to explosions. This leads to all kinds of things.
Let’s say a family has identified, or parents have identified—and it’s probably pretty obvious—that it’s a problem for their child or their adolescent. How do you recommend starting those conversations and putting limits in place, especially when for teens it is how they get information from their school clubs, it is how they make plans with friends and have a social life? If not, they’re going to experience the isolation that we’re trying to avoid in the first place.
How do we start these conversations when we’ve already reached a problem stage? And maybe we answer this separately for young children, children, and teens—given the amount of control a parent can actually have.
Rachael Levine (27:14)
There’s a lot less control as kids get older. And at the end of the day, they outpace us in understanding technology almost all of the time. Even if we know really well how to use it, they learn it so much faster. And they can find lots of ways to get around boundaries and things that we set up—not to be scary, but it’s just a realistic way to approach it. Because at some point, fighting it is not going to be helpful for everybody. How do we do this in a way that’s sustainable and healthy?
In some ways it’s the same across ages in that it starts with a conversation around: “How much is this impacting us, and do we need to get help?”
What’s still a really thin line is if children who are maybe more prone to developing anxiety or depression are experiencing those things already. Sometimes additional screen time can make that worse. I don’t know that it starts with screens. So it’s not just about screen limits and screen boundaries and healthy screen use as much as also helping those kids build healthy coping habits around what they’re experiencing. We have to do both.
We have to think through: How can we decrease, or shift, or alter the way they’re interacting with screens—and bolster their coping resources and adaptive problem-solving outside of that avoidance and dependence on screen use? It’s certainly a family approach.
But I think the first step is sitting down with someone. It’s really helpful to get an objective third party to sit down with and talk it through, and be really honest: How many hours a week do they think their child is engaging with screens? There’s worry and concern—sometimes embarrassment—around that. But it’s so helpful to be objective around what that actually is and start from there. It might not be going from 40 hours a week of screens to zero, because that’s not very realistic. But how do we start to cut down on some of it and increase time on other activities at the same time?
Britt Teasdale (29:03)
What reactions to those limits are considered for the various age groups versus what type of reaction might signal that there are some regulation challenges happening—or “I need to pay attention to this”?
Rachael Levine (29:16)
The best predictor of future behaviors is past behavior. We all learn and change, but I think typical responses to a new limit around screen time vary based on your child’s temperament and their typical reaction to frustration. It might be a total meltdown and outburst, and aggression and arguing—and circular arguing of “I need that, give it.” It could be resigning and shutting down and not engaging in other things.
So when we build plans with families around how we’re going to set a limit when we need to, or start to decrease this time, it’s helpful to meet all together and preview what’s about to change so that nobody’s caught off guard. It’s not a surprise for everybody in a moment of calm. Hopefully, you’re having a conversation about what this will look like as a whole family. And then we cope ahead for potential reactions, knowing it might be similar to other times your child has been frustrated.
Beth Hope (30:10)
I have to imagine that looking at the soft skills is so important. I know setting limits and the behavioral piece is huge, but I’m already thinking—I have a freshman in high school—it’s not just about setting limits. I want her to be able to go off to college and do this for herself when I’m not the one who is there to make suggestions, or truly turn off the Wi-Fi if I have to. It’s about teaching kids at each stage how to be intentional and understand the pros and cons so that, as they get older, we have less and less control. If they don’t know how to do this for themselves—or want to—it’s a scary thought.
Britt Teasdale (30:37)
Yeah.
Rachael Levine (30:54)
And it’s a hard skill. With kids who are young—as young as five or six—I’ve had conversations where you can say, “Hey, this is a fun game to play. And when it’s time to stop, it’s helpful and important to stop. And if when it’s time to stop, it means you get really upset and hit your mom and want to throw your game controller, it tells me that your game is not helpful for you. We should not play it at all because it’s hard to get off of it.”
Helping them tie together—“Oh, playing this thing maybe feels good in the moment, and then I feel really bad after”—is an important thing to piece together.
And for adolescents to think about: “Okay, maybe I’m on social media and I want to do this thing, or I want to be on my phone.” But notice how they feel after. If they feel fine after, great—keep going. Do what you need to do. But if you notice your mood shift while you’re engaging on your phone in a way that doesn’t feel good, that’s your cue to stop.
They have to learn that skill, too. And we all do. I think it’s hard for lots of people.
Beth Hope (31:53)
Okay, you brought up social media. Let’s go there.
Britt Teasdale (31:56)
That’s what I was just gonna say.
Beth Hope (31:59)
We’re going to do a whole episode at some point because this is such a big topic, but I think we’d be remiss not to at least talk about it a little bit when we’re talking about screens—because that’s how we access it.
Rachael Levine (32:02)
Mm-hmm.
Britt Teasdale (32:10)
I’m curious: how young are kids getting on social media? What’s the reality right now?
Rachael Levine (32:17)
That’s a good question. I think we’d have to look at some of the stats on that. Certainly kids in elementary school have accounts on different platforms. There are so many young kids who have YouTube accounts to make videos of things. There’s been such a huge platform for unboxing and funny videos and all kinds of things that are very appealing to young kids. Then they want to be YouTubers when they grow up, and they want to create these channels and show off these things. It’s huge.
Beth Hope (32:27)
For sure.
Beth Hope (32:49)
We’re hearing in Australia and other countries they’re putting limits in—it’s going to be illegal under the age of 16 or under the age of 18. I don’t know that that will ever happen here. Ironically, I feel like parents all say, “Oh, I wish that would happen here. I wish we would do that.” And we’re not doing it because it’s so hard in our own households.
How do we determine which social media platforms are the safest and really monitor what our kids are doing on social media? Where are the recommendations on that?
Rachael Levine (33:24)
There have been some studies out of Australia—some of these more recent studies—that really were able to put some causation into place. So engagement in social media increased symptoms of anxiety and depression in youth. That’s where a lot of that came from.
We’ve known it for a long time, right? We see it happen in a real-world sense. We see kids comparing themselves to other kids, or seeing things they missed out on and feeling left out. We see negative feedback loops that kids fall into when they feel like they’re not cool enough, or they’re comparing themselves in all of these unhelpful ways.
Your question of “what’s a safe platform” is an interesting one because they’re all morphing and changing so often. Platform-wise, I think it’s helpful to know, as a caregiver and a parent, what each platform is and the way that it functions and works. So you can get a sense of: Do they have a private account? Is it something that other people can find them in? Are they only findable by their friends? How are they putting themselves out there?
What content is actually on there? What are they putting into the world? What pictures of themselves are they putting out there? What communication is going on there? These platforms are changing all the time and there are new platforms. I don’t know if there’s one particularly good one. I think it’s more about knowing what each of them are and having conversations with your kids.
Beth Hope (34:47)
For me, Snapchat is the hardest because that’s how everyone is messaging one another instead of text messages. They disappear, so it’s not like I can go in there and see the messages back and forth. It’s also where you can see where everyone is—and then you see your friends are getting together without you, and that just feels really crummy.
We have a rule in our house—and always have since the kids got accounts on various platforms—we need to be able to have your passwords and login. And you can assume that we’ll be doing that from time to time. And kids create fake accounts. To your point, the kids are smarter than we are with this stuff.
It’s really scary to think about what they’re recording and putting out there of themselves, and also what they’re accessing that they may or may not even be looking for. So I tell my kids a lot of horror stories about people ruining their lives by posting pictures of themselves that are inappropriate, and try to scare them out of it. But that doesn’t feel like the best way to parent either. It makes me want to throw my hands up in the air.
Britt Teasdale (35:53)
Yeah. I mean, fair. I’m an ’80s kid—I was born in the ’80s. I remember being a teen and being on a dial-up computer talking—you know, not social media, but you’re a teen and you’re testing boundaries and exploring different… I don’t even know what was on MySpace or something.
It was a lot more difficult to talk to people you don’t know at that time—and you still did it. Now with all these apps, it’s just so easy to take risks. And I feel like as a teen, you’re already in a time where you take risks. You’re pushing boundaries and wondering what you can do or what you can get away with. It just feels like it makes it very easy to do that.
Rachael Levine (36:51)
It’s so easy on these platforms, but there’s less risk-taking in real life. So there’s risk-taking online. They’re doing things in these platforms, and we worry about all those things that you listed, Beth. Snapchat is scary because of the way that the messages disappear and what goes out there. And there are other ways on other platforms to make things disappear, too.
I mean, your scare tactic is not so bad. I don’t think it’s bad at all. It’s more that you’re teaching them how to be smart about it. You want them to be critical—be critical in the decisions you’re making, be thinking about these things. There are consequences to your actions, and consequences to actions are hard for teenagers and kids. They’re going to have to learn it as they go, but all we can do is teach them.
Whether they’re a teenager who’s out at a party without adult supervision—before there were screens—and they’re making a lot of risky choices in that space, now they’re maybe making risky choices online or talking to each other. There are different consequences of either one. Part of what they’re doing as adolescents is building their identity and building their independence. They’re trying things out and seeing what works and what doesn’t. All we can do is teach them.
Beth Hope (38:04)
Because I know we’ve talked about this at Compass—both in skills groups where we’re teaching kids of different ages various skills, and within family therapy sessions—what are some of the things we try to teach kids and families in terms of how to think about intentional and balanced screen use and social media use?
Rachael Levine (38:26)
I think it’s a lot of what I mentioned before: noticing how you feel, and what are you doing—or not doing—instead.
And in extreme situations—maybe not even that extreme—you all mentioned before that we can’t really get away from screens in school. If somebody is really struggling with screen use and it is becoming a problem across the board, and they’re having a hard time getting off it in a way that we feel like we need to limit everywhere, there are ways to make plans with your school to have paper-only assignments.
There have been situations where we’ll say, “Take it away altogether for a little bit while we work on some other things.” More often, we might say, “Let’s put it to the side for part of the time and work on these other things.”
We want everyone in the system to think about: if it’s a parent or caregiver—especially with younger kids, where you’re controlling a little bit more—we need to make a plan that’s sustainable. It can’t go from all to nothing if you can’t actually do it. We want everybody to think about: What does your daily structure really look like? What’s doable for you? And how do we work from there?
For teenagers who are managing it a little bit more for themselves at times, we want them to think about that emotional relationship they have and start to discern: “Am I avoiding something? Am I doing this because I don’t want to do this other thing? Am I feeling bad about something else and I can’t access other coping tools to problem-solve or manage distress, so I’m going to turn to screens?” We want to build their insight and awareness and other skill set so they can manage those things without screen use.
Britt Teasdale (39:57)
What are some easy, simple tips that families can try today?
Rachael Levine (40:02)
I think it’s helpful to sit down and evaluate what your week looks like. Don’t assume, “We’re probably on screens X amount of hours a day.” Really try to measure it. That’s a good first step.
And see: How do you use screens yourself as a parent or caregiver? What are the platforms you’re on every day? What are the things you feel like you need? What are the things you feel like you want? What’s your relationship with screens?
Then look at how your kids interact with screens, and get an objective picture of your week. From there, you can ask yourself: Is this a problem or no? If it’s not a problem, keep doing what you’re doing. It’s not so bad—stay informed.
If you’re looking for guidance on how to help your kids build this relationship and think through “What is a healthy relationship with screens?” and “How do we continue to monitor this as we go?”—the American Academy of Pediatrics has a website, HealthyChildren.org, that can help you walk through steps for a family plan around screens, whether it’s a problem or not. There’s also guidance on Common Sense Media and a few other places that will walk you through some of these questions. It’s just nice to get an inventory.
Beth Hope (41:12)
Is it helpful to have rules like: no phones in the car and we’re going to have a conversation and look out the window? Or we can use them as long as it’s something we’re all doing—like we’re all playing a game together—versus something more isolating. Are those kinds of rules or guidelines helpful to have?
Rachael Levine (41:33)
Yeah, they’re helpful to have—and they’re variable based on family and lifestyle. But it’s helpful to have that space somewhere. So maybe if you’re a family that has dinner all together, maybe you have screen-free dinner. If you’re in the car, you could establish a rule of screen-free car. You could establish a rule of no screens until after school in the afternoon.
There are lots of different ways to build out those chunks of time. You could even look at: What are the times of your day that would make sense to be no-screen time? And it might be different for everybody.
Britt Teasdale (42:06)
How do these conversations change for families with children who are neurodivergent? Does the conversation change? Does it not? How do you approach that?
Rachael Levine (42:18)
In some ways—and in many ways—it’s the same. The thing that can be different is that there’s less room for gray. You might be able to say to some kids, “You know what, it’s a special day—we don’t have school today—and there are other things going on, so you’re going to have extra screen time.” Or, “We’re going to do two days without any screens this week because we’re going to take a break.”
You can still do that if you have a child who’s neurodivergent, for sure—but it takes a lot more prep and a lot more planning. It’s a lot more beneficial to be very consistent in your time and plans. There’s less wiggle room for adding an extra half hour on one day and then not the next day.
Britt Teasdale (43:01)
I was just with children you may see who have ADHD or something like that, where parents are struggling with structure—like you said, setting those limits. That’s interesting to hear. It’s just so important to be really consistent.
Rachael Levine (43:21)
Yeah. Good news: as a parent and caregiver, usually with behavior plans, you have to be about 85% consistent for them to be helpful—which is really nice. It’s not 100%, which is great news for everybody. It’s pretty impossible. But yeah—85% consistent for a new behavior plan usually gets us going pretty far. That, I think, is one of the trickiest things.
Britt Teasdale (43:28)
That is great news.
Beth Hope (43:34)
Still feels like a lot to go, but sure.
Rachael Levine (43:43)
Kids who have ADHD, or autism, or anything under that neurodevelopmental umbrella—everybody’s different. So it can’t be generalized to every kid or teen or person, but they’re definitely looking for predictability and consistency in a plan. You might see more meltdowns or more blowups around variable rules and screen times. If you can build a plan around “This is when we have screens, this is when we don’t,” and be able to do that, it can be really helpful.
Beth Hope (44:12)
How important is it that consistency is consistent across both parents—if there’s a two-parent household, or divorced parents, or kids are with grandparents regularly? We all have different feelings about this and different thoughts about what is appropriate. How important is it that it’s consistent across environments and caregivers?
Rachael Levine (44:35)
It depends on the kid and what they’re working on. If it’s just your typical plan that you’ve developed as a family and everyone’s functioning really well, for the most part, people are doing what they need to do—then there’s flex in that system. Kids know grandparents are different. They might have different rules. My parents are different. They might have different rules. Those things happen, and we can’t control it very well.
If you’re in a spot where, as a family, you’re really working on this—and you have a screen-time plan to address some of those concerns we talked about before—and you’re actively working on decreasing screen time and increasing other tools, then it’s more important to be consistent. We’re developing new habits and new strategies, so we want to try to be as consistent as we can.
So it might be briefing grandparents, babysitters, caregivers, and trying to get two-household families on the same page. Sometimes it’s possible and sometimes it’s not. And if it’s not possible, then it’s another conversation: what does it look like in each household, and how do we get as close as we can to consistency?
Beth Hope (45:40)
I’ve heard of the five C’s when it comes to screen time. I’ve found them to be a helpful lens. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that?
Rachael Levine (45:54)
You can learn more about that on that same website I mentioned before, HealthyChildren.org. The five C’s help you think through all of the variables you want to consider when you’re talking about screen use and the way that your family might interact with screen use.
The first C stands for “child,” and that gets at a lot of what we’ve talked about. Every kid is different. You have to think about your child’s temperament, their personality, who they are, what they’re working on, why they might need screens in certain ways—if they don’t need screens at all, what that means. Really thinking about who they are as an individual, what they need, and how might they react. Some kids might be more prone to social anxiety, or have a diagnosis of social anxiety disorder. Having them spend hours on a social media platform comparing themselves to other people may not be supportive for them. So you want to think through how they’re interacting and what is helpful for each individual child.
That might even be different across multiple children in the same household.
The second C is “content.” We talked about that earlier—what are we doing with screens? Are we watching educational videos? Are we engaged in video games by ourselves? Is it a multiplayer video game with friends or other people we know? Is it a video call with a family member? Whatever it might be, we want to think about what that content is and how it’s impacting our children when they’re using it. Is it leading to fear, anxiety, or worry? Or is it something they’re being exposed to that sparks interest and learning, and that’s okay.
The third C is “calm,” and that gets at replacement. If we’re finding that our kids are using screens to calm down—if it’s the way we’re quelling tantrums or supporting coping—then that’s problematic. We don’t want to only have that high-level distraction as a way to manage emotions. We want a balance of healthy coping strategies in the mix, and not just relying on screens for that.
The fourth is “crowding out,” and that speaks to what we’re not doing when we’re on screens. If we’re spending a lot of hours on screens, we’re not doing other things. So we want to make sure we’re filling time with other activities that promote things like problem-solving together, social interaction, building mastery, engaging in hobbies—all of that.
And then the fifth C is “communication.” How are we talking with our family members about screen time?
Britt Teasdale (48:26)
That brings up the question: what are you doing on a screen? For children and teens, they may start using a tablet or a phone with one intention, and then next thing they know they’re seeing something they did not seek out necessarily—whether it’s on the internet, social media, or YouTube. Do you have any tips for managing seeing difficult things online, whether it’s violent or distressing, and how parents can help children through that? Maybe they don’t have a phone, but someone else is showing them something they didn’t want to see.
Rachael Levine (49:10)
Yeah. This is where monitoring and screen plans, and having healthy communication around screen use from as early as you can, can pay off. You’ve set boundaries you mentioned, Beth—that you make sure everybody has everybody’s passwords, right? We’re taking away some of the privacy around screens and setting the stage early on that these are things we talk about.
So even in the absence of having seen anything, start conversations around: “What did you do? What did you see on there? What did it look like?” Normalize: “Oh, this is a conversation. We’re going to talk about content you might have seen and what was involved.”
Then if something scary or confusing or hard to watch pops up—because it happens more and more, and there’s a lot happening in the world that’s readily available—you already have the door open for a conversation. You can help clarify what they saw, validate the emotions coming up, and talk through what happened in a developmentally appropriate way.
If it’s a small child who saw something, you might say, “Yeah, that was really scary. And there are a lot of adults helping, and a lot of people working on this, and we’re going to work on it together.” You might help them shift into something supportive—maybe giving back to the community if that feels helpful, or shifting to a healthy coping strategy they can build.
If it’s a teenager, you might have a more realistic conversation: “That was scary, and there’s a lot happening. What do you think we can do about it? Or what do you feel like you want to do about it?”
Britt Teasdale (50:47)
As parents, we worry about our kids all the time. I’m sure it’s natural for a parent to feel like, “My gosh, how could I have prevented this?” or “How much is this going to affect my child?” Can we talk about the shame around things happening out of your control? Also, the shame involved with the kid themselves seeing something they didn’t want to see—and feeling shame about that, too.
Rachael Levine (51:14)
Yeah. For caregivers, that piece is so hard. There are so many things that are out of your control once your child leaves your home. You mentioned this, Beth—once you start going to school, once you start being out in the world and interacting with other people, we don’t control those interactions. There’s always a risk of being exposed to something, or having that conversation.
And the answer is not to keep your child in a bubble. That’s detrimental. So we have to think through: how do we let them go out, manage that anxiety and stress as a caregiver, and address it? You cannot prevent everything. And if you tried, you’d have a different problem that would be concerning. So you have to let some of these things happen, and we learn from them. You can’t shield everybody from them. So how do you set the stage and create space for a very open conversation?
For kids: they see something that they “shouldn’t have seen,” in air quotes, or something that leads to guilt, shame, fear—whatever it might be. Our job as adults is to help them see that it was out of their control too. Somebody else chose to put that on the internet. They couldn’t have necessarily done anything differently about that. How can we take that and say, “You know what, that’s a video that nobody needed to see. You didn’t need to see that.”
It’s individualized in terms of what a child’s experience was, and we have to follow their lead. We can’t necessarily put our emotions on them based on what it was, and we have to get a sense of what they’re experiencing before we address it.
Britt Teasdale (52:48)
What brings you a little bit of hope in terms of what you’re seeing with families and youth interacting? Do you feel hopeful about any of this?
Rachael Levine (52:58)
I do. Screens and technology are still really cool tools. All of this stuff exists. When some of it was new and it was opening doors and opportunities for people who needed assistive tech, and who needed to access people or spaces in a different way, it opened that door.
I think technology will continue to do that. It allows us to do so many things, and we can use it in really cool ways. We are having to think really critically about how we interact with it—just like we did previously with social interactions in different spaces, too. I think we will continue to develop these skills and learn more. At the end of the day, I think it’s definitely a net positive to have screens.
Beth Hope (53:39)
Is there anything we didn’t touch on or ask you, Rachael, that you were hoping we would talk about—or things you just want to put out there into the parent and caregiver universe about screens?
Rachael Levine (53:51)
At one point, Beth, you mentioned for adolescents wanting to be mindful of limiting screen time because it’s their social connection. I think I would say to caregivers: you know your kids best. It can be really hard if you’re carrying around a lot of guilt around that social connection, or if you’re thinking, “If I do this, I’m going to ruin their lives,” or “They’re not going to be able to talk to their friends.”
At the end of the day, if you’re seeing more negative consequences from their interactions in those spaces than positive, then shift it. It’s okay. They will build those social connections in a healthier way if it’s not working for them in that way right then. Let yourselves make those decisions based on what you think is right—not necessarily based on guilt or worry—if possible. That’s a tall order.
Beth Hope (54:35)
I’m so glad you said that. My kids were some of the last in their friend groups to get phones, and what pushed us to do it sooner—we didn’t wait until eighth—was they were being left out. Not even intentionally, but because plans were being made on group chats. It’s just how people make plans now.
I’m not saying it was the wrong decision. I think it was the right decision because you have to kind of keep up to stay a part of things. And you mentioned fear- and anxiety-based decision-making, and it is hard.
Having worked with families professionally and in my own personal life, when you try to say, “You’re spending too much time on your phone,” instead of “Go outside,” or “Make a plan with a friend,” and then you take away the phone, they’re like, “Well now that is my social connection.” It’s hard.
We gave access to Instagram to our daughter because it is the only way in our community to get information from the clubs and activities they are a part of in high school. That’s how teams and clubs communicate updates about meetings and other things. If she didn’t have Instagram, she wouldn’t know about those things. So at a certain point, there isn’t a choice.
And it reinforces what you’ve been saying all along, Rachael: it’s about giving our kids the skills to make good choices. Whether it’s noticing how they’re feeling afterward, or even in the moment—being mindful of how this is making me feel.
They used to talk with us about the effect of magazines like Seventeen and Cosmo and Glamour on the self-image and body image of girls growing up, to the point that they were limited. I think sometimes people don’t realize what constant exposure to images and advertisements of people who look a certain way can do. Educating kids in an age-appropriate way about being mindful consumers of what they’re seeing—even if it’s not inherently bad—is so important. So that they can eventually think, “I’m in this really crappy mood. Maybe it’s because of this, that, and the other.” That’s the goal.
Easier said than done. But it is hard not to parent out of fear and anxiety.
Rachael Levine (56:52)
Yeah. It’s not an easy task. This is something to have some self-talk around.
Beth Hope (56:56)
Zero stars. Do not recommend. Just kidding.
Rachael Levine (57:01)
It’s a check to be like, “Wait a minute. Did I make that decision for this reason or this reason?” I like to use that 85% consistent idea all the time.
Britt Teasdale (57:08)
Beth, I think you brought up another point that we touched on earlier that’s so important. If Instagram is the only way for your child to interact with school-related activities or extracurriculars, it brings up the conversation: Should these things be more regulated—like they’re doing in Australia—where maybe the answer is it has to go out through email or something else? That makes me sound really old, but you know what I mean.
It brings it back to that conversation. Yes, we want them to be critical thinkers and be able to think critically about these things. Without a doubt, that’s important. But also, where does the responsibility lie on the adults that are putting these norms into place?
Rachael Levine (57:53)
Yeah. I think it’ll be interesting to watch over the next five years if those things change. I think there will be more calls to change—more people asking for there to be a different way. At the end of the day, your choices are: give Instagram, as you did, so they can manage and be independent in their sports schedule and activities and know what’s happening. Or you presume some sort of Instagram presence, and you are now in the mix of this teenage chat—which is not great either. So there are really two not-great options.
And I think you have to choose one or the other, and then bolster all of the other supports. I’d bet in the next handful of years, those things will start to shift—maybe.
Beth Hope (58:40)
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation. I feel like I learned, and it was therapeutic somehow.
Rachael Levine (58:47)
Hopefully.
Beth Hope (58:48)
I love learning from you. So thank you.
Rachael Levine (58:50)
Yeah. I could talk about lots of things for a long time, but thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.
Beth Hope (58:58)
As we wrap up today’s conversation, I think one of the biggest takeaways is that screens themselves aren’t the problem. It’s the relationship we’re building with them—for our kids, and honestly for us too.
Britt Teasdale (59:08)
Exactly. Instead of trying to chase the perfect time limit, it really comes back to paying attention. What are our kids doing on screens? What might screens be taking the place of? And how are they feeling before, during, and after they use them?
Beth Hope (59:23)
If you’re noticing changes—mood shifts, sleep issues, more isolation, more conflict when it’s time to turn something off—that’s a signal to get curious and start the conversation, not panic.
Britt Teasdale (59:34)
And maybe the most reassuring thing we heard today is: you don’t have to get it perfect. Small shifts, consistent routines, and open conversations really do make a difference. Remember: you know your child best. Every family’s plan is going to look a little different, and that’s okay.
Beth Hope (59:50)
Thanks for joining us for this episode of You Only Know What You Know. If today’s conversation was helpful, we hope you’ll share it with someone who might need it too.
Britt Teasdale (59:58)
And next time, we’re talking about something many families are navigating right now: when school isn’t going as planned. Our next episode will focus on school anxiety and school refusal, including what’s going on beneath the behavior, and how families can move from daily power struggles toward support and collaboration.
Beth Hope (1:00:16)
Before we go, maybe this can be a reminder to put the phones down, step away from the screens, and check in with the people around you—including yourself.
Britt Teasdale (1:00:24)
Thanks for listening to You Only Know What You Know. We’ll see you next time.
